If Women Ran Comics, Would (Straight) Men Still Read Them? // VOID-STAR.NET

If Women Ran Comics, Would (Straight) Men Still Read Them?

So apparently there’s recently been a bit of wank over Power Girl. Surprise surprise, right?

Except I was reading Esther Inglis-Arkell’s post over at 4thletter! when something occurred to me. Check it out:

And I heard the justification about how Canary’s outfit was in tribute to her mother, even when that means she’s in panties and a jacket in the First Wave books. And I’ve heard the one about Poison Ivy being a plant and therefore unconcerned about human modesty. Oh, and I’ve heard the one about Supergirl being invulnerable and therefore not needing pants. There are a few about how Huntress wanted to show off the fact that she was shot, and she lived, and that’s why she fought in a bikini. And then there’s the one about Batman and Superman . . . oh. Wait. There aren’t that many excuses for how Batman and Superman dress because, golly, for some reason, the male heroes in this mostly male-controlled medium put their fucking clothes on when they’re going to fight someone.

Hrm. You know what? This:ⁱ

Superboy

Because, I mean, Superboyⁱⁱ is invincible, right? So he doesn’t actually need clothes protecting stuff. And he flies, so high heels are no problem! Not to mention he’s a healthy young man; why shouldn’t he show off his cup size? It’s not his fault if people want to degrade themselves by staring! Plus the outfit gives him an advantage over his distracted enemies (Lex Luthor, that philanderer)! See, it all makes total sense!

Because here’s the thing, guys (and I’m using “guys” in the specific, rather than the general). When I see Poison Ivy or Huntress or Power Girl or Supergirl or Black Canary I have a reaction that is similar to the one you (hopefully) get from the above. Because, see, the first thing I think about any of those characters isn’t “power” or “danger” or “leadership” or “courage”. It’s the fact that they’re obviously — obviously — designed to be pin-ups. Two-page fap material for the male artists, writers and readers.

And I don’t identify with that. I don’t idolise it. And I really don’t want to be that when I grow up.

It’s not rocket surgery.

Standard disclaimer for art drawn at 1am and coloured in five minutes applies. Excuses excuses. ↩
Yes, boy. In the same way Power Girl can be an adult woman with pornstar tits and still be called “girl”. Also, I drew his head too big. Guh! I should’ve stuck with the original proportions I sketched out. Bitch bitch moan moan woe is me the artist, et cetera. ↩

516 words posted 278 days ago at 4:28 pm.

This entry has 15 comments from Robbie, mat, Tess, Hope, bloods-a-rover, severedscythe, Jesse, Ninja Sheep · Random stuff from the net. Tell Dee what you think?

Filed under Art, Comics & Novels and tagged with art:photoshop, characters:superman, comics, comics:dcu, feminism.

Written while feeling tired and listening to Lady Gaga, "Bad Romance".

Crossposted to dee.dreamwidth.org, loqia.insanejournal.com, loqia.journalfen.net.

15 Comments

278 days ago
1 comment
Robbie

I actually find that drawing rather amusing and rather *ahem* hot in an odd way. ‘Course, I’m a gay male, so I don’t actually count in the target demographics.
- Reply
- 278 days ago
  1,606 comments
  Dee
  
  Well, you finding it hot is sorta the point, really…
  
  Reply
  - 277 days ago
    12 comments
    mat
    
    haha…not the demographic…haha…
    
    Reply
277 days ago
8 comments
Tess

I agree with you, which is surprising, because I seem to always have a disagreement with a lot of what people say.

I’m a straight female, so of course guys in tights is going to appeal to me, except, oh wait, it doesn’t? I love comics (which is part of the reason I can stand AND read manga), and I love the plotlines and the heroes, but tights turn me off. It sounds superficial, but nobody’s going to like an ugly dude in a comic, who’s fat and balding; it doesn’t sell, and therefore…aha, here comes the tights and lack of clothing.

Personally, I don’t read comics for the women, and never will. I don’t “identify” (I’m stealing your word, kthnx) with women of power, because it’s not a huge thing for me. I can still enjoy a comic for in male-dominated world, because that’s what I like, but even I admit that women with no clothes vs. women with an actual plot and purpose makes all the difference. Hell, maybe I would enjoy comics more if the women had purpose and a plotline, and maybe if the men weren’t always hot I’d be interested in the women, but I’m not.

I’d like to see that, though, women running comics, or women running something that doesn’t sell as a pinup or a buff dude. I’d like to see most straight men take the initiative and not stare at a women in underwear, and not admire a strong dude. Hell, I’d like to see women not stare at a buff dude (including myself of course), because if so, maybe the whole domino-effect would happen, and we’d all stop being superficial.

…that didn’t come out QUITE as I wanted it to, but hopefully you got the gist? I agree, the end.
- Reply
269 days ago
3 comments
Hope

Are you familiar with girl-wonder.org? Their forums are pretty lively, I seem to remember them having a massive thread of fanart of male superheroes drawn in this ilk. It was very entertaining!
- Reply
- 269 days ago
  1,606 comments
  Dee
  
  I do know the site, but I haven’t really seen much of the community. I’d love to see that thread, though; it sounds… enlightening. :O
  
  Reply
269 days ago
1 comment
bloods-a-rover

Great post, this is exactly what goes through my own head when reading comics.
- Reply
- 269 days ago
  1,606 comments
  Dee
  
  To quote Heartless Bitches International:
  
  The girls are always dependent on the men in some way. Even if the girls are amazingly strong and wonderful, their positive attributes are what the male characters see in them and deem wonderful. It is all seen through the male perspective, and women are something alien. Women are only worthy if they’re openly sexual, and if they’re not, there’s something wrong with them.
  
  A wonderful example is the character Jubilee. Now, for non-comic readers, she is a young lady, about 15 years old in most comics, half-Chinese, loud, opinionated, frenetic, confident, generally well-clothed and delightfully flawed in many human and non-irritating or sexist ways. She’s not a sexual character (probably too young for the writers to bother with) and she is happy in herself that way. Personally, I feel she’s the best female character that Marvel has ever produced (besides Rogue, but she has her own issues in sexism that I will discuss later). She’s the most balanced, the most emotionally well adjusted, she takes no crap and doesn’t hesitate in giving up the sass. She’s also the *most* hated character in the X-Men fandom.
  
  Gee. What a surprise.
  
  Reply
269 days ago
21 comments
severedscythe

AHA *LAUGHS FOREVER* I’ve been saying this for YEARS and nobody listens to me, so I’ll link the hell out of your post instead.
- Reply
- 269 days ago
  1,606 comments
  Dee
  
  Eyenoerite? This isn’t anything new, which is probably what the saddest part is. :/
  
  Still, you’ve gotta laugh. Or something.
  
  Reply
  - 269 days ago
    21 comments
    severedscythe
    
    What’s funny is when you get guys getting HORRIBLY OFFENDED and I’m sitting there all “powergirl needs a boob window? REALLY?”
    
    Reply
    - 269 days ago
      1,606 comments
      
      Dee
      
      It helps her fight crime.
      
      … I mean, seriously. Has it not occurred to anyone how ridiculously patronizing (to both genders) that is? Like, “The only way a woman could posibly distract a criminal is to distract him with her HUGE BOOBIES!” >_O
      
      Reply
269 days ago
20 comments
Jesse

Hrrrmmm… I’m going to be a pain in the ass and say that I don’t think this boils down to a matter of costume design. Costumes leave fuckall to the imagination for either sex (even your design there could be made to look more like the typical male comic design without changing the lineart AT ALL, just what’s coloured in). You’ve still got idealized designs out the wazoo essentially running around in their underwear, their skin just changes from blue at the wrist. Catwoman is clothed from head to toe; Rogue has designs which show no cleavage whatsoever, Black Widow, Phoenix, Harley Quinn, Spider-Girl, Spider-woman, etc etc. We can certainly argue that a lot of skin is being shown, but when we may as well be seeing skin ANYWAYS how important is that?

I’d argue that depiction/portrayal is a more major culprit here; Superman has an ass that may as well have been sculpted by a master, but how many covers are designed to show it off (and remember how pissed off people got with Batman Forever/Batman and Robin for including shots of their butts in tight black rubber)? How many comics make a sight gag over the fact I point out above, that characters are rescued by men who look like they’re in bodypaint and underpants? How many times does Green Lantern have to explain his costume because it’s accused of showing off his unrealistic body? And when does it get meta’d like PG’s “some women don’t think so” comment?

After that, it comes down to the body TYPES too; Superman and Supergirl have the same powers, so why is one buff as a bodybuilder and the other not? Superman could be lanky as fuck and still work fine, apparently, because Supergirl is a fucking waif in comparison but can still heft a car with no trouble. We get why Batman is ripped like whoa, but why isn’t Batgirl built just as sturdily? Why isn’t she built like a bodybuilder too?

Well, of course, we KNOW why, really. Cover all of the exposed skin of Power Girl and she’s still going to be built like a fanservice dream. She’ll still be posed in ‘sexy’ ways, her boobs will continue to be remarked upon, the design choices will always be scrutinized. It doesn’t matter what she wears, so long as it remains standard comic fare; it’s all going to come down to portrayal. Conan’s in a loincloth, and Red Sonja’s in a bikini; but he’s built and posed to look like a warrior while she’s made into a bombshell.

I dunno, I think I’m kinda rambling here… I just think that the costume thing is merely the façade of the matter. It’s easy to say that a lot of female characters are dressed too obviously sexily, and I’ll agree (for instance I never, ever liked Michael Turner’s design for Supergirl; that much midriff AND a miniskirt? Oh come on…) but I know for a fact that even if they were as covered as their male counterparts, in their current forms I would still be hired to draw them as often as I am now. There’s something deeper there, something else.

Also is Jubilee really that hated? She was one of my fave characters growing up!
- Reply
- 269 days ago
  1,606 comments
  Dee
  
  See, here’s the thing. You’re sort of right, I guess, but as a women I — and the rest of the ladies above me — are telling you that “which bits are coloured in” is exactly what matters. When we see things like this and this they absolutely grok differently to, say, this.
  
  even your design there could be made to look more like the typical male comic design without changing the lineart AT ALL, just what’s coloured in
  
  Except for the cock. Superman just doesn’t usually have one (poor Lois).
  
  Seriously, though, that was the whole point. It’s to show that, yes, “what’s coloured in” is exactly what matters. My bad art aside, Superman in a crop top (I left out his nipples… just), high-heeled bitch boots and a tiny little red thong deliberately drawn to emphasise the size of his dick is worlds apart from his usual costume. It’s the same with Power Girl versus Spoiler, but the difference is one of numbers; very few male superheroes get about in anything that’s even remotely as sexual as Peej’s kit (maybe… Namor?).
  
  Because yeah, superheroes are idealised and, honestly, I don’t have a problem with that. The norm for the genre (read: men) is super-athletic bodies in neck-to-knee spandex and sensible shoes. The norm for women is super-sexualised bodies in scraps of spandex emphasising their sex organs. Plus high heels and makeup. And I mean… dude. I don’t have a problem with idealised female superheroes dressed congruently to their male counterparts (well, I can, but that’s the depicition issue, and it can affect superheroines no matter what they’re wearing). But that’s not what I see when I open comics.
  
  I see men’s sex fantasies.
  
  And, dude, it’s weird.
  
  I know for a fact that even if they were as covered as their male counterparts, in their current forms I would still be hired to draw them as often as I am now.
  
  And women (and men) draw (and write) porn featuring Batman and Superman. So what?
  
  Thing is, it’s not about what people commission you to draw (though it sort of is; it’d be interesting to go through and do a tally of the “Percentage Skin Covered in the Standard Costumes of Random’s Most Commissioned Fanart”). It’s not about you — or about any man — at all, really. It’s about what women — or girls — see when they open comics.
  
  And, as one of those people, I’m telling you that what we see are powerful men and sexualised women. And yes, there are other issues, but “what bits are coloured in” is a huge one.
  
  It matters. Trust me. It matters a lot.
  
  Reply
264 days ago
1 comment
Ninja Sheep · Random stuff from the net

[...] If Women Ran Comics, Would (Straight) Men Still Read Them? // VOID-STAR.NET – Probably not, but his shoes are adorably cute! [...]
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